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TL;DR The sentence in the intro naming 5 threats to orca populations needs citations.
The section at the beginning has no sources while making 5 factual claims (about things that are threats to orca populations). The one specifically that caused me to doubt and made me think to check was the one about capture for marine mammal parks -- With tens of thousands of animals in the wild, and very few such parks with only a few orca each, I didn't see how this could ever be a threat to population numbers. I looked it up, and it turns out, the claim is support by NOAA! So I will add the source for that claim. Unfortunately I don't have the time to research the other 4. Help would be appreciated. WiggyWamWam (talk) 03:16, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The relevant information is in Orca#Conservation. I would agree that marine mammal capture is likely a small issue compared to the others for the global population, although it may be a local issue. CMD (talk) 03:27, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It turns out that while numbers in the North are fine, the Southern resident pods were absolutely decimated by capture for marine mammal parks. WiggyWamWam (talk) 11:47, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, User:LittleJerry! I appreciate the edit (you removed my citation because it was in the lead), but I believe it wasn't the correct choice here: Citations aren't needed in the lead when the info occurs later in the article, but from what I'm seeing the info (that capture for marine mammal parks was a major threat to Orca populations) isn't included later in the article. If I'm reading this right, the article after the lead only discusses captivity in terms of its effect to the orcas and doesn't include that capture is a threat to local populations. With this and the relevant guidelines in mind, it seems to me the citation should stay or the information should be incorporated into the article in mind. Let me know if you think I'm wrong. WiggyWamWam (talk) 12:15, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"Orcas, despite being dolphins, are commonly called 'killer whales' due to a mistranslation of the Spanish 'asesino de ballenas' (literally 'whale killer'), reflecting their historical predation on whales."
This claim is rather problematic cause "dolphins" and "whales" are popular names. They aren't meant to reflect taxonomic conditions. Especially the word "whale" has no clear definition, between baleen whales, sperm whales and beaked whales.
On top of that, the source itself (https://us.whales.org/whales-dolphins/facts-about-orcas/) is pretty problematic. It claims orcas to have been called "ballenas asesinas" (killer whales), so the "mistranslation" theory is out of thin air, then it says that "Orcinus translates to ‘of the kingdom of the dead,’ (not it doesn't, it means "the one related to orcus") and orca refers to a kind of whale (you don't say), then it goes on to say "We know that orcas are top predators, yes, but not the vicious ‘whale killers’ that the ancient mariners thought them to be." which is purely a personal comment, and possibly a factually wrong one. 79.166.36.186 (talk) 07:55, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I can tell, the claims themselves are correct, but I agree that this is a very weak source to hang the section on. The etymology of both "orca" and "killer whale" would benefit from some dedicated attention, using more reliable sources. From a quick look, it's however going to be something of a hodgepodge of conflicting interpretations. Here is the Online Etymology Dictionary basing "orca" on French "orque", sea monster, while Etymology Online goes off on a surprising tangent concerning testicles. This may take some work. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 11:56, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, I think the theory about the name "killer whale" originating from Spanish for "whale killer" is kind of doing acrobatics with the animal's name. And many sources, including this one, do this as an active attempt to stigmatize "killer whale" as a stereotype and exonerate the animals for being carnivores. It's like political correctness for cetaceans. 79.166.36.186 (talk) 14:48, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I hadn't noticed that whale denialism had crept back into this article. It's been there since 8 February 2022 (the article was moved from killer whale to orca on 2 February 2022). The claim is not in the article when it was last reviewed for featured article status (in 2010).
There are a lot of sites on the internet that make the claim "orcas are actually dolphins" (just Google that phrase, or look through the archives of this talk page), but is misleading (and utter nonsense if the claim is extended to say that "orcas are not whales"). In everyday English usage, whales are large cetaceans, and smaller cetaceans are referred to as porpoises or dolphins (or pilot whales). Orcas are larger than other members of the Delphinidae; there is nothing wrong with calling them whales (especially since pilot whales are also delphinids, and the internet is far more quiet about them being "not whales").
The everyday English usage of whale/dolphin/porpoise makes whales (if orcas are included) polyphyletic. Everyday English usage isn't subject to a cladistic preference for monophyletic groups. Toothed whales are paraphyletic if dolphins are excluded. So even if there was a reason to subject everyday English usage to cladistic preferences, "orcas are not whales" doesn't hold up cladistically. Plantdrew (talk) 17:38, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've been low-level annoyed with the forced dolphin/whale distinction for some time, but it's not something I felt like digging in for. I certainly wouldn't mind revisiting the phrasing. - Re asesina ballenas, I've just spent another twenty minutes looking around the web, and there's plenty of mid/low quality sources that all repeat the claim. Many of these are slightly better than the current source (e.g. mention in a Nature news feature), so it could at least be swapped out at ~ the same level. I have however been unable to find something really reliable, like an etymological analysis :/ On the side, pretty nice one here for the origin of the term "grampus" wrt the orca; will see to adding that. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 12:21, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I’m new to editing Wikipedia so I’m not sure what the protocol would be on a locked article, but is there any way we could change this? Perhaps to something like: “Orcas are also commonly known as killer whales” and just leave it at that. After all, the official Society for Marine Mammalogy lists them under that name: https://marinemammalscience.org/science-and-publications/list-marine-mammal-species-subspecies/. The word “despite” tacitly perpetuates the oft-repeated but untrue claim that orcas aren’t actually whales, and as others have mentioned, it is incredibly difficult to find a reliable source for the claim that “killer whale” is a mistranslation. I think Wikipedia could go a long way in finally fixing the misconception amongst the public that orcas are “dolphins, not whales”. Orcinusozymandias (talk) 13:51, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Bit discussed above, but this article and Orcinus mentions that "The genus name Orcinus means 'of the kingdom of the dead', or 'belonging to Orcus'." after one book[1] and website.[2] However, editor @Kingfiser: pointed out that this have no evidence that the name is related to Orcus.[3] Since etymology is not mentioned in the original paper, and there is no information such as a reliable paper or other information source that says this scientific name is related to Orcus, I don't think article should have such ambiguous information. However, I am not aware of any other references available on the English version of Wikipedia, so I am thinking about how to deal with this. Anyone have opinion? Ta-tea-two-te-to (talk) 08:16, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the discussion. I previously cited this information on my blog, but I would like to add a clarification here regarding the etymology of Orcinus.
ICZN (2000) states that Orcinus is derived from orca in the Code. See the Code online, Chapter 7, Art. 30.1.1 example. This provides one basis of opinion that Orcinus is directly derived from Latin orca, rather than Orcus, even though Fitzinger (1860:204) did not specify its etymology in the original paper.--Kingfiser (talk) 09:32, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You state in your edit comment "Don't need to state the obvious"
In the description it says "Sexual dimorphism between male (top) and female killer whales. Pectoral fins, dorsal fin, and flukes are larger in adult males."
It says "Pectoral fins, dorsal fin, and flukes are larger in adult males."
This can obviously indicate that the individual at the top is male. Should we remove "(top)"?
level-4 vital article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Already done jlwoodwa (talk) 16:27, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
